INTERVIEW WITH ANGRA
ANGRA REVIEWS
On August 03, 2005, I interviewed guitarist and a founding member of Angra, Kiko Lureiro, for the ProgPower 6.0 USA official booklet over the phone. Even though I ran into him again at the Festival, I could never take a picture of us together, so the man on the photo above is their other guitarist and a principal lyricist, Rafael Bittencourt.
Hello, Kiko! First of all, I must say that it was a great pleasure seeing you in both Atlanta and New York in 2002, and it's good to have you back.
Yes, we are all also very excited to be coming back.
What changed in the Angra camp in three years since the last time you were here?
Then we were touring for Rebirth, for the first time with the new lineup. After our US tour we toured some more for Rebirth and then we recorded a new album, Temple Of Shadows. So far we did about 80-100 shows for Temple Of Shadows. We have been in Europe, Japan, Australia, and now making a stop in the US for the new album. The new material is difficult to perform live, it is very complicated, but so far, on all of these concerts, the audience was very supportive and overall, I think it's has been very good.
Last time you were here in 2002, you did the short tour of the country. How did you like it? Any thoughts you want to share?
It was fine. It was our first time, and we knew that the market was not so huge for this kind of music. We knew it would be hard, but some gigs were really good. ProgPower 3.0 was good and the one in New York was pretty cool… as I remember, "Lamoure's" was a legendary place.
Unfortunately, it is now gone. It has shut down since.
Really?
Yeah, it's gone.
And I've heard another legendary place, "CBGB" is also closing. Anyway. The concert in New York was very cool. There were some Brazilian people there at the show. It was very good.
I remember it being an excellent concert. I enjoyed it very, very much.
It was a very different feeling for us, because we have already been many times in Europe and in Japan, but in the United States it was the first time. Some of the United States culture we were familiar with, but still, it was a first time in a totally new environment. It was a strange feeling, like when Angra was playing our first shows a long time ago.
So it was fresh, in a sense?
Yes. And now we are very excited to go back to ProgPower, to play with all of these great bands again. Next day it's Stratovarius, and we always had fun playing with them, so it's going to be good.
Excellent. You said you did about a hundred shows to support Temple Of Shadows. Which bands did you tour with?
In Japan we had Nightwish opening for us. Next month in Sao Paolo we are going to be doing a big gig with Judas Priest and Whitesnake. We did some festivals as well. Last month in Italy we played with Dream Theater. Also in Spain we played with Iron Maiden. But mainly in Europe we did a solo tour, playing by ourselves.
Do you prefer to tour with others or solo? If with others, do you like to open or headline?
It depends on the band. In Italy, for example, there was a local band opening, then us, then Dream Theatre headlining, and it was good. If it is a professional band, and we get enough time for soundcheck, if we can use the whole stage, it can be a very good experience even opening for them. And, obviously, if you are supporting a bigger band, like we are doing with Judas Priest, we will play in front of thirty or forty thousand people, and that's obviously good for the band. I mean, we are not doing bad ourselves, and in Sao Paolo can get maybe six or seven thousand people, but that's a whole new level.
I don't know if in the US even Judas Priest can get that many people at their shows, because, you know, the state of heavy music here...
Yes, I know. But in Brazil there is still a big market for heavy metal.
OK, let's talk about your own band, now, Angra. You have been around longer than most power metal bands. Sometimes you are even a reference point in describing other bands. What is the secret of your longevity?
I guess it's just that we never gave up, no matter what happened to us. But the main thing is our fans. We have a lot of fans that support us. And we just love to play music. If we go through hard times, it doesn’t matter simply because of our passion for the music.
You have survived numerous trend changes.
We started in early 90s, when this style of melodic metal, the power metal, it was not famous and fashionable anymore. People were talking about stuff like Pantera or Metallica's "black" album at that time… So we were playing music that was not fashionable at all. And heavy metal was never fashionable in the first place. So we started way outside the mainstream. But in mid-90s and late 90s it started gaining momentum and becoming more mainstream… But it all depends, really... Sometimes the scene in Japan is good but the scene in Europe is not so good, or Europe is good and Brazil is bad, so there is always something. We can always tour somewhere. I know the scene in the United States is kinda bad now, but you have ProgPower, which is really special, bringing heavy metal from Europe and from Brazil, creating something! So I believe heavy metal music can be "shouldered" in the US with ProgPower.
Now let's talk about the major lineup up change that took place in the band in year 2000. Four members left the band: the vocalist, the bassist, the drummer, and the keyboard player.
Actually, we would hire keyboard player just for live shows. So it's three players. Rafael (the other guitar player) and myself, we had to find other guys.
Did the old members leave because of musical differences and disagreements or was it the personal issues?
Well, they have their own band now and they are playing totally different music. So I think it was mainly musical differences. There was some personal stuff, but it was mainly music. We were together for nine years, and I can't say that was never any problems and everything was fine, but the musical factor was more important. They just wanted to do something different.
Do you think Angra benefited from the lineup change, from the new musicians?
I think so. Ultimately, it's up to the fans, and in Japan, for example, we are now doing better than ever before. Considering the overall market for cds is down, and we stay afloat, I guess we're doing pretty good. And in Brazil we are much better than before.
In my opinion, you are a lot better now than before. Simply because I like Edu a lot more than I liked Andre Matos. He just never clicked with me, to put it politely.
I agree. Plus, I think, we are a lot more mature musically now. We are more mature composers, we know what we want. The sound of the band and the maturity of the band are now better than before.
Let's talk about the latest album, Temple Of Shadows. First of all, is there something wrong with the order of the songs? The order of the songs does not follow the story!
Here's what happened. First we composed the music, all of it. And all the musical material was in certain order. And then, after the music was done, we wrote the lyrics and the story. I mean, we had ideas for lyrics in the beginning, but all the music was written first, and that determined the order of the songs. The musical material was very strong and very well defined. So, yes, the story is out of order, but you can figure it out from the booklet.
I admit I spent some time trying to figure it out.
We had this musical concept of this knight. And we thought it was a very deep musical concept, with harmonies and melodies and things like that. And then we looked at it and decided that the lyrics must be as deep as the music that we composed. So Rafael wrote some lyrics about the Inquisition, and about differences between people's cultures, and things like that, and we then created this character, the Shadow Hunter. He had a vision in his mind, the revelation about God and how things should be, and so he brings out this message of peace and love. The thing is: all of the band members, we have a different view on religion. So this Shadow Hunter, he is kinda living out our views. We have a very religious guy in our band, and some others are not so religious.
You are from Brazil, a very Catholic country. Yet on this album the lyrics and the story on this album break away very strongly from the Catholic dogmas and traditions. Some of the ideas can even be considered "heretic" among the devoted Catholics. How do you feel about it and what was the popular response to that, in Brazil and other countries?
We are Catholic, but not so much, I guess. The fact that Brazil is so Catholic, I think, is also why there are so many problems in our society. 500 years of being Catholic, I think, created a lot of problems here. So maybe, somehow, Catholic church is not so good for our country, I think. In my point of view. But if we go back to the lyrics on the album, you can see how we can talk about religion not just in a bad way, but in a good way too... Some people complained. Yes, some people complained, saying they will not listen to Angra anymore because of the lyrics. I know three or four people that said that. Two of them were kids. But, generally, I think, people understood what we wanted to say on this album.
It should make you happy, then, to make people think about these issues.
Yes. On this album we talk about things that people in Brazil do not normally talk about. So we just presented our point of view, and people started talking about it. We wish that people would talk more about these issues, and those that complain – well, it's just a few of them – and they are not the people who would talk about any problems that we have here at all! To them, everything is fine, and we just don't agree! We do not think the country is doing so well.
I guess the stereotype of Brazil is that it is just a big party land. This is why when Sepultura came about, it was such a shock for everybody.
Sepultura came, bringing problems out in the open. All this aggression, all this hate they had in the music, showed the world that we have another Brazil, Brazil with problems: police killing kids in the cities, and so on. But, of course, it’s not only that. And, I think, Sepultura was sometimes too hard on these issues. But the interesting thing was when they did the "Roots" album, they showed a totally different side of themselves: the music of the native Brazilian people, and it was very, very good. They are smart guys. And we, of course, we can show that Brazil has many problems, but also that Brazil is a beautiful country with many very nice people.
In my opinion, heavy metal is a good medium to talk about problems. It's aggressive, it pulls people out of their ordinary lives...
And it also talks to teenagers. When people get older, I think, they are less likely to talk about problems than teenagers. We have some very young fans, sometimes as young as twelve, and you can talk to them about problems, and they believe you.
Do you consider yourself a religious man?
No. Not at all. Not me. But I have respect for people who are. I can see some good things about religion, but when they try to rule people and tell people how to live, I don't think it's very good. When you talk about the power and money and domination, human beings, even most religious, stop being human. Pure faith is good, but organized religion is something very different.
When I first held the album in my hands, I was surprised at the album cover. It's an icon of St. George slaying the dragon, an Eastern Orthodox icon, with Hebrew letters on the bottom.
It was Rafael's idea. But we all liked it. This saint is very popular in Brazil as well, so it's a strong image for all Brazilians. In our opinion, St. George killing the dragon represents the Occidental culture fighting and killing the Oriental, because dragon is a popular Oriental image, representing happiness and fertility, all good things. And for us, Westerners, the dragon is a negative image. So it's about cultural domination.
It's even deeper that I originally thought.
It's a deep subject. And it’s a very strong image, this is also why we chose it.
How did you get Milton Nascimento to perform on your album? He is not a metal singer, he is a pop singer.
He is a very famous singer, both in Brazil and worldwide. And this album, music-wise, shows how we have no prejudices against any kinds of music. We are very open about music that we play. And on this album, we are talking about different religions and being open-minded, and it seemed like a good idea to invite somebody from a completely different musical genre to illustrate this notion. When we bring Nascimento to a metal album, we show that we have tolerance for other opinions, in music and in life.
But did you have common friends or did you contact his management or...
Well, with other guys that perform on Temple Of Shadows, Hansi Kursch, Kai Hansen, and other musicians, we have been friends with for a long time. With Milton – no. We thought about him because he is an icon here, we love him as a composer, he is world-famous. And we have a song on the album that would make sense to be sung by him. So we knew somebody that knew him, we got in contact with him, we sent a song to him, and he said: "Of course." He said: "I recorded with different people, with Peter Gabriel and so on, but I never recorded with a heavy metal band, but it’s my dream, I always wanted to do it." And so he did. He said: "Music has to connect people, doesn't matter what style you play. It's a language that can connect everybody."
That's a very good story. Now let's talk more about the music. From what I know, the overall reaction to Temple Of Shadows has been positive, from both critics and fans. But I have a heard a strong criticism of Edu’s voice. A lot of people think he sounded better on Rebirth. He sounds almost strangled here.
Yes, he changed. He sang differently on this one. But many people like it this way. It's all a matter of taste. If you don't like it, I respect your opinion, but a lot of people do like it this way. I must say that I do not hear him change that much, because we tour and spend a lot of time together, so if his voice changes gradually, I don't hear the change as drastically as those that hear him on the albums. But also some people prefer this current style of singing because he has carved a niche for his own voice, trying to do something of his own, as opposed to just sounding like...
... like Matos?
Yes. I think he is trying to be more versatile here. After the lineup change we wanted to stray away from the way Angra sounded before, but not too far, because it was dangerous.
On some songs on the new album he does sound like himself on Rebirth. But on many instances he just sounds like he is choking himself.
I think he likes the current style. I don't know.
What about musical differences between Rebirth and Temple Of Shadows? To me, the former was a bit smoother, more free-flowing, while ToS was more disjointed, more jerky.
With Temple we wanted to experiment more with harmonies and with sounds, make it more complex. Especially in the arrangements.
So you deliberately went for complexity?
As musicians, we should always try to explore, try to search and find something that wasn't done before. We could record Rebirth again, but we don't feel like it. We want to experiment with different things. And Temple Of Shadows is the result of this search. Our next album may turn out more like Rebirth: more easy flowing, simpler, straight-forward heavy metal, or it may be even more complicated. I don't know. It depends on our mood when we write it.
Are you constantly composing or do you, after all tours, sit down for a writing session?
We're constantly writing, but during the tour we concentrate on the songs that we play. Still, almost every week we throw around ideas for songs, even while on tour. We're always recording stuff, doing computer work, recording musical ideas or even entire songs. Then, at the end, we all sit down, listen to all the ideas that each of us recorded, and then we focus exclusively on the new record. We always try to have about 15 songs recorded, so we can choose about 12 or 13 songs for the record.
Now, my wife asked me to ask you a question about the influence of Brazilian folk music in your works. There was a little less of it on ToS then before. Previously you had some straight folk songs, like "Carolina IV" or some songs on Rebirth, and not so much on the new one.
On ToS we tried to divide the album into two halves. The first half was to be more simple power metal and the second half more complex, with folk motives. Like "Shadow Hunter" and some others. They are more traditional Brazilian in nature. Brazilian folk music is always present. Even in our heavy metal. The way we compose, the main idea almost always comes from some traditional Brazilian influence. Quite often it all comes from an acoustic guitar, playing a simple Brazilian song.
What would you say is the main source? Is it the bossa-nova or samba or Indian beats or what?
I listen to everything. Bossa-nova has more complex harmonies, which we like and interesting beats can come from samba or Indian stuff or Carribean salsa or from wherever. When we write, we usually start mixing everything.
This is what makes Angra unique, because you can mix all of these Brazilian folk influences and sound unique. If an American or a European band started doing it, I guess, it would come out a little fake.
Well, the American bands have the blues and old rock'n'roll to draw their influences from.
Who would win a futbol (soccer) match between Angra and Sepultura?
Angra, of course! I don't know, haha... But we can put an Angra and Sepultura unified team against anybody from the United States!
I thought it was funny, how in 2002 on ProgPower 3.0 you played right after Gamma Ray. And I spoke to Kai Hansen and teased him a little how a German band must play before a Brazilian band, because Germany just lost to Brazil in the World Cup Final. Now, on the scale of 1 to 10, rate some guitar players for me. 1 is the worst, 10 is the best.
We must have a reference point somewhere. What is a 10? If Jimmy Hendix and Eddy Van Halen, it's one thing, and if it's just "good," then it's another thing. But let's try.
Glenn Tipton, Judas Priest.
If I were to compare him to Jimmy Hendix, I guess I'd give him a 6-7.
Michael Weikath, Helloween.
As a songwriter or as a player? If player -- a 5.
Criss Oliva, Savatage.
That’s a good one. 7. Remember, I give 10 only to Hendix and Van Halen. I think there was nobody since who's on the same level.
But wouldn't you agree that there are a lot of people now who can play their solos? I mean, the level of guitar playing has risen since then, hasn't it?
Yes, a lot of people can do their solos. But to bring the revolution the way they did. Yes, many people can play faster or more complicated stuff than Jimmy Hendrix, but it's about the revolution to me. Same thing with Van Halen, Jimmy Page, or Jeff Beck. Now there are also some good players, don't get me wrong, like Steve Morse, John Petrucci, the guy from Symphony X...
...Michael Romeo? How would you rate him?
Oh, he is very good, I give him a 9. Just because only those two guys get a 10 from me. Or actually I could give 10 to him. Him and John Petrucci.
Alright, the last one. Andeas Kisser, Sepultura.
I think high of him. Hey, I give him a 10 too. Not like a solo guitar, but the rhythm and the feel of it. Roots was great. Real Brazilian stuff.
Very good! It's been a real pleasure speaking to you, and I will see you in Atlanta. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Goodbye!
Additional quotes:
Edu Falaschi (vocals): "If you hear my band prior to joining Angra, you will see that this is how I was singing on it. This is a lot more natural to me. I feel like in the mid-range I have more power rather than when staying high at all times. When I first joined Angra, I was simply trying to sound like Matos, but right now I'm in a more comfortable place where I can be myself."
Rafael Bittencourt (guitars): "I must apologize to all fans that did not like our sound on the Angra Live cd. We really did not know what we were doing. Making the live recording sound well on a cd turned out to be much more difficult than we imagined, and by the time we realized that, we were badly out of time. The demand for the product was there, so it turned out the way it did."
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