I've met with Jon at the ProgPower USA 9.0, September 2008, a couple of hours prior to their performance. Many thanks to Frude and Chris Kinder for making it possible.

Jon, I had the priviledge and the pleasure of interviewing you back in 1998, ten years ago, after you and SAVATAGE gave one of the most fabulous and memorable shows I have ever witnessed: in St. Andrews Hall, Detroit, MI.

Why, thank you very much!

So, it's been ten years. What has changed since?

I got ten years older (laughs). Everything is good. I am very busy. Jon Oliva's PAIN [JOP] is starting to take off in Europe and we tour there a lot. Last time we've been there, we tripled and even quadrupled our audiences, which is a pretty good sign. We are also going to do some shows here, in the US, and see what happens. We haven't toured the States in a long time. We did a few shows with Chris Caffery four years ago, which was a nightmare from the promotion standpoint. Artistically, it was a great lineup: Ripper's band, BEYOND FEAR, JOP, and Chris Caffery, but there was no promotion! The promoter that did this tour disappeared after the first show! We were showing to play -- and our names weren't even on the venues' marquee! We just got suckered into a very bad deal. So it left a very bad taste in my mouth as I was leaving America, like: "Fuck this, man, I'm gonna go to Europe and play for 10000 people! Here I'm playing for 50 people because this guy doesn't want to put posters up in the window!" I mean, we got paid, but... how stupid must you be to pay me the money for the show and not do a goddamn thing to get the return! I don't know what was he expecting: the people to just hear about it from the air and show up?

Well, you know, very often people do things against their best interests, for whatever reason...

Stupidity! Stupidity and laziness. But, like I said, we're gonna give it another shot now.

Let's start on a very general note. In the late 90s, when I spoke to you last, metal was in a very dismal state, at least in the US. Except for SAVATAGE! In my opinion, you guys were the best American band in the 90s.

Thanks! We actually did good in the 90s! Yes, in America we didn't do as strongly in the 90s as we did in the late 80s, but we still did pretty well, considering the situation. And from the artistic standpoint, in the 90s we were creating Trans-Siberian Orchestra THROUGH SAVATAGE. In a sense SAVATAGE was our guinee pig. TSO was the logical development of the direction in which SAVATAGE was going. SAVATAGE slowly morphed into TSO.

Is that why SAVATAGE is no more?

There cannot be SAVATAGE because all of its members are in Trans-Siberian Orchestra! It's not even Christmas-oriented anymore: "Beethoven's Last Night" and the new album we just finished, "Night Castle", are not Christmas. Christmas material was part of our deal: we were supposed to do a trilogy and we did. We still do a Christmas tour every year but that's it! It's like The Roquettes, a famous Christmas show that tours every year, but we're done writing Christmas albums.

So you basically used Christmas theme as a wedge to break into the mainstream?

Right! Precisely! We had all this great material, but the name "SAVATAGE" was really looked down upon in America, because we were perceived as the 80s metal band! Anybody we talked to didn't want to have anything to do with us! "Heavy metal band from the 80s!" -- and it's over. Meanwhile Paul and I were writing songs like "Sarajevo 12/24," which we knew were hit songs, but they wouldn't even listen, because these songs came in a package with the name "SAVATAGE" on it.

And now -- everybody's happy! What people got to understand is that now all members involved are happy! What I am doing right now is actually BETTER for the SAVATAGE fans. They get the best of both worlds. They got TSO, which is where SAVATAGE was going anyway in the 90s, and then they got what I'm doing here, JOP, which is a little darker but more versatile and, at any rate, the kind of stuff that I always wanted to do. If SAVATAGE stayed together, we would now be releasing records that would sound exactly like what we are doing with Trans-Siberian Orchestra! Everybody -- Johnny Lee, Jeff, Chris, even Alex Skolnik and Al Pitrelli! -- we're all in TSO, playing 90s style SAVATAGE. The whole family is still together, we are the core of TSO. It's the same band, just under a different name.

Trans-Siberian Orchestra IS SAVATAGE of the 90s. Jon Oliva's PAIN is SAVATAGE of the late 80s / early 90s. Plus, with all this Criss Oliva's music that I just found, it's actually more SAVATAGE than SAVATAGE: Jon Oliva and Criss Oliva's music together. No pressure from the record companies; I can do whatever I want. Money is not the concern: TSO makes more than enough money to take care of all financial issues. This is really from my heart, what I want to do in the genre of heavy metal. There is so much great stuff of Criss's that I found on tape, it's like working with him again. An intelligent SAVATAGE fan should listen to this stuff and say: "This is closer to real SAVATAGE than even "The Wake Of Magellan" was."

I admit, I have not heard the latest JOP release, "Global Warning", just got it yesterday.

Oh, you'll like it a lot. There are some great songs on it.

I think you've been blessed with some of the most intelligent fans out there, just due to the nature of your music and lyrics.

Absolutely! I love them! I was just speaking to some last night: they were very, very knowledgable, and I love that. I love to discuss music with people and especially with the fans, because I really love the feedback. In Europe when I discuss my songs with them, they actually pay attention to my lyrics, it's pretty neat. A lot of people yesterday have heard the new record and they loved the new record. Some said it was their favorite JOP record of the three, in part because it's got great Criss's music mixed with my stuff, and it's just so versatile. We're playing 4 songs off of it tonight.

Still, the name "SAVATAGE" has a lot of potential. I'm sure there are several million dollars to be made on the name: the "reunion," the festivals, the DVDs...

First of all, if there were millions of dollars to be made in SAVATAGE, I'd still be in SAVATAGE. Yeah, we've talked about something like this, but... you see, the TSO is so big and is doing so well, and we're all so busy with it. It's like a machine, a freight train running down the track, and to revive SAVATAGE would be like throwing a body on this track.

I have heard all kinds of rumors, like Paul O'Neill not letting you restart SAVATAGE...

Not at all. God's honest truth: everybody from the SAVATAGE camp is happy. I am happy, the rest of the guys are happy with their role in the TSO. We're still together as a family. Chris Caffery, for example: he's in TSO, but he's got his own little on the side...

Speaking of: what do you think of Chris's solo project?

Some of it is good. I liked the first one, but not so much the following ones. The new one sounds good: I have heard a couple of tracks before we left to come here -- my drummer, Chris Kinder, helped him master it -- some great stuff there! I'm really proud of little Chris! It's kinda DR. BUTCHERy.

What about CIRCLE II CIRCLE?

Well, Zach seems to be happy. Another thing that people gotta understand: SAVATAGE has been together for a long, long time. We went through a lot of shit together and after many years of frustration we have finally achieved success with TSO. It was the success we felt we deserved and other people thought we deserved it too. A lot of pressure fell off of everybody. People finally were allowed to do the things they wanted to do: Chris, for example, got his own little thing going, and others too. TSO is our nest egg. It enables me to do what I really want to do, which is this, the Jon Oliva's PAIN. TSO is my job, I love my job, and I write great stuff there too, but this is my passion, my outlet. My music, my brother's music, my lyrics -- no Paul's lyrics here, on JOP! -- and I say what I've got to say. I'm having a lot of fun here, I got a great band, they're smoking.

After being in metal for over 30 years, what keeps your flame going?

Drugs! (laughs) No, no. I don't know; it's a passion. A big part of it is that I don't just play heavy metal. That's what keeps the metal stuff that I do fresh to me. I don't beat myself senseless trying to do just one genre of music. If you listen to this new album, you will agree. I don't overdo metal. Don't get me wrong: I love metal! I've done enough metal in my life...

...so you don't have to prove your "metallness" to anybody.

...and I'm still as "metal" as it gets. I do it every night, but there's more to me than just that.

Do you keep your hand on the pulse of modern metal?

Not much, but I do like a lot of the European metal bands. I like PAGAN'S MIND a lot. I like ELVENKING! I call them "The Elvenpigs." We toured with them, and I got them all stoned... by accident. They're good guys, and I like their band a lot. I like ICED EARTH a lot: I've known them for a very long time. They're an American band, but I like what they do, what Jon does.

You influenced a lot of European bands, probably more than American. That brings me to another point I want to discuss: to me, SAVATAGE was always more European than American, perhaps the most European of all US bands. I think American bands are mostly about riffs, and Euro bands are mostly about melodies.

I agree. To me, melody was always more important. Melody and lyrics. Melody is what a person notices first in a song, so it's very important for the melody to be good.

I know you're a big fan of the BEATLES. John Lennon and Paul McCartny used to say: "We write a kind of a melody that we remember in the morning, because if we can't remember it, who can?"

That's right, and QUEEN, whom I also worship, is the same way. Great melodies, great musicianship. That's what I like. They were my teachers... them and others, all -- Europe-based bands. BLACK SABBATH, the BEATLES, QUEEN, The WHO, LED ZEPELLIN. I've never listened to American bands when I was a kid. None! All of my record collection was straight from Europe.

It's surprising that SAVATAGE even did as well as it did in the US.

Oh, we were doing great for a while! But we always did better in Europe.

In the 90s whatever metal market was left in America, it was controlled by bands like PANTERA.

Absolutely. And you see, their music is a different kind of metal. Early METALLICA, PANTERA, and the bulk. Nothing against them, it's good for what it is. Like you said, it's more about the riffs and the groove than about melody. You see, I'm a singer, and to me there's just not a lot of vocal melody going on in their songs. Even in Metallica songs... I mean, he's got some, with "The Unforgiven"...

I love that song to death!

... me too, I did a cover of it on a Metallica tribute album with Lemmy. He played bass, and I sang. But, like you said, American metal is more about groove: the trashy guitar sound, the speed, the aggression, it's not centered around melody or lyrics. It's more about power. I agree: SAVATAGE is more European than American in our approach.

Everybody from the SAVATAGE "school" -- Chris Caffery, Zach Stevens, yourself -- all pay attention to lyrics in their songwriting. Why don't more bands do this?

Because they are lazy. That's the only reason.

They keep rhyming "fire" and "desire"..

(Jon starts singing) "FIRE! DE-SIRE! THE END IS COMING! SATAN! DEVIL!"... We know you are pissed off, thank you. I love nu-metal bands. We get it: you're mad! Your life is just so fuckin' miserable. "I grew up in Southern California" in half-a-million dollar house, but I'm still mad at my fuckin' parents!" So I'm gonna tune down my guitar to an open chord, I'm gonna learn 4 of them, and I'll have a band!

What are your ties to New York?

I was born there. Spent a lot of time there between 87 and up until the "Poets & Madmen" album (2001). I was in New York constantly through the 90s, spent more time there than in Florida. I was in New York when Criss got killed, and after that Paul kept me very close up there. My wife and son lived in a house in Florida, and I mostly stayed up there, in an apartment. It was like this: go to Florida for a week, go to NY for a couple of weeks, go back, go up again...

So I guess you observed a lot of changes first-hand.

Oh yes, a huge change! We used to call New York "a sewer by the river."

Let's shift gear a little bit and talk about the upcoming election. What do you expect from it?

More dismalness. This country is a mess. Either way we're screwed. The president doesn't run the country anyway. Honestly, I'm not even going to vote, because it won't matter, we're still gonna be fucked.

Even though you are in Florida, one of a few places where votes would actually matter?

Not to me. The taxes are still going to go up, internationally we're screwed as well... If it was up to me, I'd start a coffee shop in Holland called "The Hall of the Mountain King," sit behind the bar, serving hash to everybody, and loving life.

Really? You wrote a lot of very convincing anti-drug songs...

I also lie a lot. (laughs) No, I'm only kidding. I am very honest when I write these songs, because I experienced a lot of that when I was younger.

How did you manage to get out?

Drug rehab. (laughs) It was really difficult. I partied a lot in the 80s. As a matter of fact, I can barely recall most of the 80s. (laughs) I had a good time, but then came the time when I realized I couldn't do that shit anymore or else. I paid a hefty price for that realization, hell -- it almost killed me. So now I still smoke a joint every now and then and -- I'm a happy old man! I love to smoke, I've been smoking since I was 14. A joint does the same thing to me as drinking 4 Jack'n'cokes, except there's no morning sickness. I love to play music while stoned, just let it run. You will see tonight (laughs). No, no, never. I promiss: you will have a great time tonight.

Rank some vocalists for me. 1 the worst, 10 the greatest. Charles Rytkonen of MORGANA LEFAY is often compared to you, do you know who I'm talking about?

Oh yes! I remember... he is good! I've only heard him once, but it was good. I'd say he's definitely above a 7!

Ronnie James Dio?

Oh, he is above a 10! I've spoken to him a few times. He is a lovely man. I mean, goddamn: he is 60+ years old and he sounds like he's 25! He is really inspiring for me. I'm gonna be 50 soon, and he inspires me to keep going. He sounds every bit as good now as he did when I first saw him when he was in his 20s. He is just amazing!

Geoff Tate, QUEENSRYCHE?

He is amazing too. He's got a different style though. A much more smooth, crisp style that I normally like, but Geoff is definitely a 10 also.

Since we mentioned them before: Damnagoras, ELVENKING or "The Elvenpigs"?

The Elvenpigs? Hmmm... he is young. He is not a 10 yet, but he is going to be soon. He is developing his craft. He is at that age when he's gonna find his niche soon and then he'll be more than a 10. See, I'm nice to everybody.

I was actually about to ask: are there any singers that you don't like?

I don't like guys who sing like (growls) "brlgrghrllargggrh"... the cookie monster singers. I just can't handle that.

Sometimes it's done well, though. Have you seen AMORPHIS last night? I thought this was rather inspiring.

But you can't understand whattahell he was saying! That bothers me, I'm a singer, I want to know what are you talking about! But if it's just all "arrrrggghhh"... I'm sorry, I need a word here.

NIGHTWISH?

I love NIGHTWISH. Now, with or without THE girl?

With THE girl. Tarja Turunen.

She is amazing. One of my favorite female singers of all time. Just incredible. I've only met her once. God, I'd love to do a joint project with her.

Shouldn't be too difficult now, since she's out of NIGHTWISH.

But I thought she's doing opera again. Maybe some day. But, listen, I gotta go now. Still, I hope you'll have a great time tonight.

Thank you for the interview, Jon, and I wish you luck!